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Bail Reform: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
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- 게시일 2022. 10. 29.
- With midterm elections approaching, John Oliver discusses the issue at the core of many republican attack ads: bail reform.
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Remember kids, if the penalty is a fine that means it's legal for the rich.
If the price is a fine, then it's fine for a price
All fines should be a percentage of income, that’s the only way to make it better.
@Tim Bryan not just income. It should be a combination of income and net worth. Rich people avoid showing income using an army of accountants
@thunderb00m yes! Unfortunately it’s also easy to disguise net worth too, and easier when you’re rich.
@Tim Bryan still no. Being rich isn't just about earning more. There's a cut off point where being rich is a profit in and of itself. Every human needs some amount of money to survive. A poor person can't afford to lose any of that money since it all goes into living until the next paycheck. Hence, "living paycheck to paycheck". Once a person earns more than that they can start to build wealth. Doing stuff like investing leftover money in stocks or whatever they wanna do. To Elon musk, having to pay a 3rd of his monthly income is only annoying cause his big number goes down a little. To a truly poor person that means going without food for 2 days
This is very badly written I realize. I am in a slight hurry. Hope it makes sense but Tl;dr: once you go past a certain level it almost doesn't matter how much a % of your income is your bail. Cause even if it's 100% of one months income, if as you earn double what you need to spend to live per month you can pay that off in 1 months work by not buying any luxuriesand saving. It's the same logic as trickle down economics. It doesn't work cause rich people don't need to spend all their money every month. That's why they're rich in the first place. Because they can save it up. Extra money isn't gonna mean they spend more money than last month. If it really has to be about money, which it should not when it comes to personal freedom or on the flip side the safety of others then it should work like tax brackets. Where the rich have a sizable investment to make and the poor have to weigh doing crime with the punishment and decide that not doing crime is better. But that's not how it works either. It would be much better to rework the system to be as efficient as possible without sacrificing true justice. And those that do go to prison or whatever should be checked to see if rehabilitation would be in everyone's best interest. Getting punished for "accidentally" killing your friend in a fit of rage is one thing. Having to live with the guilt is another. You can reenter the workforce and still have served your punishment. And if you killed someone in cold blood because it made you tingle or whatever crazy stuff happens to some people then you shouldn't be in prison anyways as you have different problems to work on in a mental hospital or something. But in the end, except for people who would genuinely kill or steal again there isn't many people that should be behind bars IMO. It has been proven time and time again that nobody learns their lesson by being punished. Only makes them want to do it again. We're humans and that's how we work. Now I really gotta go. Sorry for this turning into a slightly long rant
Why we don't have laws enforcing political ads to be true and not deceptive is beyond me.
Amoreica iz a lend of Freidom..Can say whatever they want
.My foot.
Because your country is not free. It belongs to a few very rich people.
Too hard to enforce, given that those are exactly the people we are supposed to trust with making fair laws.
That poor child whose life was destroyed by the accusation of stealing a backpack... legitimately brought tears to my eyes. Everything is so fucked up
💔
I am confused by something. How was he stuck in Jail for years? I thought you can't be held in jail without trial for that long?
Hearing that he killed himself - normally they use the words 'took his life' or 'committed suicide' but saying "killed himself" was a good idea because it really hammers home what he actually did - was gutwrenching. I knew thats what was going to be said but still, having it confirmed hurt. He had the best years of his life taken away and he could never get them back and the rest of his life was ruined.
😪✌
The Kalief Browder story is one of the saddest things in life. This actually not only killed him but his mother as well and negativity affected his siblings.
He committed suicide, his mother was not paid the financial windfall from the wrongful conviction (which she deserved) and died from not affording treatment. Then his brother and sister were forced out of their family home. Human beings can be so evil
He was already a convicted felon
@Nick Jacobs Which means that one can then be held indefinitely without trial or conviction for a new and separate item?
@Nick Jacobs he was accused of taking a bakery truck for a joyride. He said he was innocent, but plead guilty.
@Aamna Here Sorry the facts hurt your feelings but he was a convicted felon & its a fact that he was a criminal.
"Pleading guilty to something I didn't do just to end the suffering" sounds eerily familiar to describing torture.
Sounds like something from the Soviet Union.
or possibly very familiar to Salem witch trials
@TheBackyardChemist or, ya know, the United States. Guantanamo is still open.
The amount of times I've heard or seen a judge arbitrarily worsen a life based on as much as not liking the look on their face while their life is being trenched has always twisted at me
And those judges should be stripped of their bar license and ban practicing law. But judges are like gods in most counties, and states, untouchable by most everyone. Takes an act of *insert your own deity* to remove one and even then new one isn't guarantee to be any better.
Why does bail exist? Every case should be judged individually and chared should be let out for trial based on How dangerous they are or did they commit the crime earlier.
In Manhattan where I live an Old man was brutally beaten and robbed the Robber was caught earlier last month for a street fight and shoplifting and he has a rap sheet. Why He was out on Bail reform?
I believe all people charged with a victimless crime should be free. But Muggers, Robbers, and Aussulters should be in jail
@Herman Hoppe bail exists in the US because you're not required to tell the government where you live, so it would be hard to find you if they have to even if you don't hide. At least that's the explanation I've heard
It's a really great reminder that you NEED to figure out why someone is in a position of authority. Most people tip their hands within the first few minutes of meeting them; did they reach this position out of a desire to better society and do the right thing OR has it always been a desperate need to feel strong and have a power trip? Depending on the answer there are wildly different expectations, we could do a lot more to notice and start eliminating these ego-driven people from such positions.
Take it further. A ton of job applications ask whether you've been arrested. Not convicted. Arrested. Oregon outlawed the criminal history questions on job apps, but it needs to happen in all states.
I got a dui as a juvenile and I still have to put it on job apps 15 years later ... it hasn't stopped me from getting a job but it's Still total bs that a job can legally require me to state whether I had a dui when the job requires 0 driving and is remote ..
I don't think people should be punished and prevented from earning a living for mistakes they made in the past!
yeah no im not going to hire convict the public has a right to know who they are dealing with and tigers dont change their stripes ....the majority of thefts and other criminal action like vandalism comes from hourly employees on the job ..this is stastically proven and the larger your business the more losses you incur
If you have 3 million people in prison and the streets still aren’t safe, then maybe something else is going on beyond just filling prisons
This is the only show I can wholeheartedly thank for depressing the shit out of me every episode, but while laughing.
Me too, it's like you laugh and cry at the same time.
With a good portion of sarcasm I guess…
It should anger you more than anything.
Rest In Peace Kalief Browder. May the “people” that did this to you burn in hell, they deserve it for putting you thru it.
I hate that we just let police lie on television and in the papers. I've talked to so many people, especially older people including my in-laws, who understandably fall for the police propaganda and are constantly fearful of crime and criminals. It's so deliberate how they do this, and showing people facts doesn't change their mind because you're right, the fear-mongering ads on the TV are much more compelling to many people.
Thank you for doing stories like this, because we can't just ruin people's lives for the comfort of people who are afraid of crime. And I think people should be more afraid of the state's ability to take their rights away than of being the victim of crime. The story of that young man who was held for 3 years and missed his high school years was heartbreaking.
Perhaps then we should have a maximum voting age of 65 & lower the minimum voting age to 12. That will do a lot to significantly reform our criminal justice system
All this bs reminds me of a quote from the villain of the first Fantastic Beasts movie which says something to the effect of:
"Who are we protecting...us, or them?"
And the Fantastic Beasts movies are set in the Wizarding World of the Harry Potter universe. A Wizarding World that oppresses themselves for the benefit of us normal people because they're afraid of being hunted down and killed like they were during the Witch hunts.
It's a system that didn't serve the Wizarding World anymore mainly because it isn't the late 1600s anymore and because the Witches and Wizards were practically hiding in caves like cavemen once did. And if all we do is hide for our survival, then we never progress ourselves beyond the 1900s or 1600s.
When I was 19, I was arrested for being 11 years behind on child support. My bail was set @ $5000, even though I was 19 years old and being accused of being 11 years behind on child support. A week later, when I finally got to see the judge, he released me because it's impossible for a 19-year-old to be 11 years behind on child support, and they had the wrong person.
There is no way the judge even looked at the case when he assigned bail, if he had, he would have seen that they had the wrong person.
So what you're saying is if I don't want to pay child support all I have to do is invent a time machine?
Aww come on man you expect us to believe that you weren't out there knocking up girls in grade school?
wow, that's just infuriating
@Anthony Goodley
Well yeah not when he was 8 years old
Thank you for mentioning Kalief Browder. His case was heartbreaking he was literally just a kid forgotten in the system and then dismissed.
That young man who took his life after being released for a robbery charge is absolutely heart breaking
Kalief Browder. His story guts me. Just proves that being poor is a crime in this country.
I cannot agree more with you and the people who are responsible for his death are walking free as we speak. This is humanity at its worst 😞.
What's really heartbreaking is how Kyle Rittenhouse killed a man with an AR-15 because he was threatened with a fist fight.
I came very close to being the same story, literally despite the alleged victim denying i did anything, the detective pushed anyway and im still dealing with it nearly 6 years later.
As someone who was given bail instead of being released on my own recognizance for correcting the judge when he called me a "meth addict" because I was trying to better myself from heroin addiction with Methadone maintenance program (monitored by doctors, daily appts, weekly therapy, etc.), I approve this message.
ugh, I'm sorry to hear you went through that, dude. I hope your recovery is going well.
@Jayne Nunya been clean for about 20 years now. I was mad at the time, but I definitely needed the lesson on my journey. It changed my life.
The thing which gets me the most from this story is hearing about people being in jail for at least as long as they could have been sentenced for if they had been convicted. How the hell can you be held for that long without a court date?
It's going on three years for me. Luckily I had plenty of money at the time to stay out of jail. My money is running out and they are trying to put me in jail so I will have to take a deal. I did absolutely nothing. There is no evidence against me. There is no case against me. My charges aren't even what I was arrested for. I lost over $100k in equipment from civil asset forfeiture. I've been on pretrial which is the exact same thing as probation. Same restrictions and fees. If I violate due to non-payment I go to jail until trial. That means I can get 5 years for no crime committed
(1) The courts are backed up for months or even years because there are INFINITE LAWS to make sure that EVERYBODY is guilty of something or other so that the system can squeeze money out of everybody. (2) We live in 1692 Salem. 😒
Over here in Germany, you can only be put in jail if there's either a flight risk or if there are reasonable suspicions that you might tamper with evidence or witnesses. And even then the public prosecuter has to get a detention order from a judge no later than the next day, otherwise you have to be released
People charged with crimes were always walking the streets, as long as they could afford bail. Great point, and thank you so much for this program.
If you’ve never been in jail, falsely accused, you cannot imagine the psychological impact. It’s horrific. And permanent.
i wish more people understood this it ruins entire lives & families with it aswell
Amen
I understand that but what about everyone else who needs to be in jail. I have been in jail over public intoxication which ain't that bad, but I was in there with some real psychos some dudes who I thought to myself man you shouldn't be out in the street.
Well obviously… they generally don’t let people out if they are a danger.
Also, it’s not really up for YOU to decide.
Generally speaking, we need to stop letting our emotions rule the criminal "justice" system and instead let it be ruled by science and lessons learned from prior failures. That alone would solve 90% of the problems we see with the system today.
The system in northwestern europe is geared towards recidivism prevention, reintegration, resocialization and helping people not feel dehumanized and marginalized after convictions where possible. Convicted criminals aren't just treated like cattle in an industrial farm, ready to be intimidated and exploited via convict leasing or 13th amendment dodging indentured servitude in for profit work camp prisons. Prisoners have the opportunity to learn a skill they can use in society once they're released as well.
Low incarceration rates, low murder and other violent crime and decent recidivism numbers speak for themselves. People have a social safety net when they get out as well so they won't be bankrupt, sick without insurance and left to their own devices.
Do we still get murder, violent crime, robberies, gang shootouts, assassinations and bodies in the streets here? Of course. Just not nearly as many. Dehumanizing a one time criminal to the point where they're ostracized from society, stripped of rights like voting and abused by wardens and fellow inmates, and you got a recidivist who keeps the for profit prisons profitable and the incarceration rate (for minorities) high high high. Never mind the death row moneysink.
America seems to always make its policies based on emotion. Dumb people get to make policies not based on science or statistical evidence. That's why so much is going wrong and why John Oliver has a show at all... He is doing an important job.
There is an excellent TEDx talk by Jeff Rosen on German prison and what the Americans could lern from it. Very eye opening.
Story time! This happened to the older brother of one of my best friends, I met the guy when he was in HS and his sibling was in middle school with me, so a few years before this all happened.
He, at age 19, was charged with the rape and impregnation of a 16 year old girl off of just a verbal description of the assailant - "light skin, dark hair, glasses, no visible tattoos, about 6 feet tall, young-ish, drives a black camaro, wore a hoodie and jeans". Most generic description you can get, and it was about an event that supposedly happened 3 or 4 months prior, meaning he couldn't easily get a solid alibi. He'd never even seen the girl before he was pulled out of a walmart, taken to jail, and shown her picture.
He was told to sign some papers when he was booked in, told they were, among other things, giving the police the ability to contact his place of employment or education to tell them he might not be back in a short timeframe, and only later learned that he instead signed away his right to a public defender and declined an expedited trial. Bail was set incredibly high, there was no way he could pay it, so he sat in jail for 21 months before he got a hearing, and that hearing lasted barely 20 minutes before the judge was like "yeah there's no way this guy did that". Why? Because he's white, the girl was white, and the now 16-month-old twins were very noticeably dark skinned - and oddly enough, so was her 21 year old boyfriend whom she apparently started dating immediately after she turned 18.
In that time, he lost his part-time job, lost his college scholarship, lost all the stuff he had in his college dorm, and had his car taken due to nonpayment. He couldn't get a job because he had a record of being arrested for raping a child - even though he was quickly and conclusively found not guilty. He learned that innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply even to white people if they're accused of something bad enough, as proven by him being the default punching bag of the other people held in jail, and the people detaining him were even worse. After he got out - two days before his 21st birthday, something he called the cruelest birthday gift one could get - he became an alcoholic, and a few years later died from injuries caused by crashing into a telephone pole while drunk.
Holy shit. What a tragedy
I feel sad bro
Something similar happened to my uncle
You have to be strong to volunteer in a jail esp with a ministry but it sounds like you all have the heart for it
That judge who raised bail 2k because the girl said “yeah” deserves to be sent to prison for the rest of his life.
I'd rather be around her than that judge. He seems far more dangerous.
Literal power tripping tyrant.
Just give him a bail and double it every time you don't like him. Which is continuously, because he's like that.
He was removed from the bench for "a pattern of musconduct." He got his
John, while all of your videos are incredibly important, I feel like the ones where you highlight how absolutely broken our "criminal justice system" (if it can even be called that) is are the strongest. Never stop talking about this topic. In fact, if you only talked about this topic, I'd be happy, lol.
It’s a legal system, never has been a justice system
Had a $25,000 bond for second offense battery on an officer. Same officer as the first time (both times the dude tried to fight me and I beat his ass trying to defend myself. Never been arrested for anything else). I shelled out $2,500 for bail and spent $10,000 for a good lawyer and the charges were dropped because of video evidence. The first time I had a court appointed attorney who told me the video tape didn't exist so I had to take a plea. Turned out it did exist but the attorney didn't even file the paperwork to access the video. Basicly because I had to pay $12,500 for my freedom the second time. To this day I'm still labeled a violent criminal while that cop has gotten promoted to Sargent.
You beat his ass. That's what you get for not being a rag doll.
I hope you're still around and that's terrifying that a cop thinks violence is the answer to everything that isn't initially violent.
@shooglechic I had my back turned to him both times. Both times he tried to choke me but he's like 5'6 140 pounds I'm 6'3 200 and used to be an athlete. Surprised he didn't learn his lesson the first time. The second time afterwards he was saying shit like "I got you this time. You're going to the pen. Second offense if a felony. Bla bla bla." He did it with the intention of sending me to prison and if I would've gone with a court appointed attorney again that's exactly where I would've gone. I have a masters degree but can't get a decent job because I'm a violent criminal on paper. In real like I'm the chillest dude you'd ever meet.
That is horrifying… I hope you stay safe.. it doesn’t sound good … I hope you don’t live in the same town
Remember, you can be the most law abiding citizen in the world until a cop decides you aren't.
I always laugh when people tell me, "you'll be glad the cops were there when you're the victim of a crime." Guess what? I was the victim of a crime. Our car was stolen out of our carport. We reported it to the cops. They told us it is NOT stolen, but impounded, and they give us the address. What they failed to mention is that the car had been completely torched. It was a hunk of metal delivered to an impound lot. The impound folks gave us a lovely bill for $400 in towing and impound fees. The cops refused to investigate any further and essentially made it sound like it was our fault. Thank you so much, police--you protected us so well that the "service" you provided cost us $400, left us without a vehicle (thankfully we have a second vehicle; many are not that lucky), and gave us nothing in return. Impound lots, much like bail bondsmen, work hand in glove with the cops to plunder local communities without providing anything of value. It is pure rent seeking.
@Dave Schrumpf sounds like there's some missing info here....did you leave your car on the side of the road or something? There's no way in hell your car came up missing from your driveway and the police acted like this.
That's why we have a judicial system. It's not the cop that decides your innocence.
@Jon Mancill No, no, you can't tell him that, because that's called personal responsibility, and it's never their fault, it's always someone else that did that to them. These people have made their decision that all cops are bad, and therefore, when they get caught doing something illegal, it's the system's fault.
@Jon Mancill Your a totally clueless person.
But let me help you. Always buy a used car with cashiers checks and not cash in person. Because any amount of money over… wtv the heck the cop feels like that day is a reason to arrest you and take your money because “its suspicious” to carry cash
I just did 5 months, posted a 5,000 bail, for a crime I didn’t do. I thought the court would see the absurdity of my case. They thought I couldn’t bail out so their first offer was take 3 years and a felony. It’s crazy.
That “yeah” vs “yes” scenario reminds me a lot of the “I want a lawyer dog” scenario. Where they thought the guy was asking for a dog that was a lawyer, and not legal counsel.
You're actually being too generous with that, none of them were actually stupid enough to think he wanted a dog with a degree, they just wanted to use that an excuse to deprive him of his constitutional rights.
This show should be mandatory to watch weekly in schools.
It should also be mandatory to watch weekly in Congress
As always John and his team deliver news and information with conviction in every sentence. Thanks for bailing us out of our ignorance.
Unfortunately can only bring a horse to water. Nothing changes when millions of Americans need to label everyone not like them as "others" and seem to almost enjoy dehumanizing them 🤷♂️
@Chopped Cheese All to true my friend. I sometimes post these clips on my FB page but notice never more than two or three people like or comment on them.
I was in court for civil disobedience and the woman ahead of me was given 21 days for a $12 check for a pizza, her check had bounced. She was a young mother. Had to be separated from her baby . Lost her job. It was ridiculous and tragic.
"You're charged with a crime, you're guilty... But also presumed innocent."
So, it's like Schrödinger's Cat. You are both guilty and innocent, until someone opens the box, and finds out you died, because you were locked in a box.
Its so much more simple: whereas the cat could die if the wave function isn't collapsed fast enough...none of that matters for bail: if the county stands to make a lot then all bets are off because they are focused on 1) making corruption $ any way possible 2) helping the people if they have time to get around to it.
I'm genuinely glad that the political party I align with doesn't say stupid shit like this.
"We assume you're guilty" and "You have the right to a presumption of innocence" are mutually exclusive. You seriously do not have to be a genius to realize that.
Lady, spot on
It's funny how none of this bail talk applies to the Jan6 people, who nearly all of them did nothing wrong besides walk through a building; yet many of them are still not out/ no bail/ no trial. Lets not talk about that though.
👍😅😂🤣
In Georgia if you try to put up all the money yourself they charge you a "processing fee" that you can't get back and costs more then the bail bondsman. The bail bondsman, who was directly across the street from the jail I was in, had the same name as the sheriff 🤨
That case with Kalief is devastating and has stuck with me for years. It's a reminder if the cruelty if our so- called justice system.
Another uniquely American problem.
In the UK a judge decides if you're a danger to the public and you're either held in jail or let go until your court date.
Unless you've done something particularly heinous you're being let go.
Most important show out there. Thank you so much to the whole team.
I hate when the media makes a big huge deal out of someone committing a crime, that person is then found not to have done it or to have had anything to do with it, and there is no retraction aired for people to see to know they didnt commit said crime. Their name is then slandered with this. Its often put online as well, meaning potential employers can google your name and think "oh, they were a criminal" and not hire you
Because it sells papers and gets clicks. Who cares about the moral or ethical implications of irresponsible reporting and the very real effect it can have on the life of an innocent person, because we sold our papers.
Totally agree, I presume you're referring to the Zimmerman trial some years ago now
@Chet she’s obviously not talking about the murderer George Zimmerman
Here in Scandinavia, they can only jail you if they expect a conviction giving you prison time, if you’re found guilty, the time you’re jailed will be subtracted from prison time - and if you’re found not guilty, the state has to pay you a fairly high compensation, so there’s a high incentive for the state to release people if they can’t get convicted quickly, and if it’s not likely they will get a longer prison sentence!
I don’t think there’s any countries in Europe that uses bail, at least not in the way the US is! Here "bail" is more a set of restrictions, possible confiscating your passport!
US system is just a way to make money!
"US system is just a way to make money"
Apply that statement that to quite literally every facet of life, and you have America in a nutshell
Yay capitalism?
@Eisen education, housing, medical care, transportation, etc.
@LadyDoomsinger it's not capitalism, it's corporate greed
I never considered how weird cash bail is until I heard the name, since I had always seen it in TV shows like law and order. Then I realized we have never had cash bail in my country. It's such a stupid system. Americans shouldn't get rid of cash bail because it's the right thing to do, they should get rid of cash bail to hopefully one day recover their self respect for having lived in a country dumb enough to think cash bail is a good idea. Only moderate offense intended.
"Confidently delivered lies by men in suits" is honestly just a very good description of politics
There’s a fight here between verifiable facts and people’s gut instincts. Intuitively, it seems that releasing suspects until their trial dates would increase crime rates, especially if you couch it as “putting criminals back on the streets.” The fact that there is no real evidence of this effect is much harder for people to process, so most people revert to what seems “obvious” in preference to what evidence indicates.
I have a friend who was accused of a serious crime. I believe him that it's a wrongful accusation.
But because it's a serious accusation, he was jailed. Because it's a serious accusation he was almost killed by his cellmate IN jail.
He was able to pay bail, but he is also required to wear an ankle bracelet (for which he must pay a monthly fee) for the entire time between now and his trial, which may be years out. He's on house arrest, and still hasn't been indicted, and he's one of the LUCKY ones because at least he's being treated like shit by the state in the comfort of his own home.
Anyone else shouting at the screen saying 'They have not been convicted of a crime, so you cannot call them criminals!'
The second John started introducing the backpack story, I knew it was gonna be bad. I could see the welling of emotion in his face the moment he started talking about it. What a needless ruining of a young person's life.
Edit: Also I respect John even more now (if that's even possible) after finding out he chose not to talk about that story in 2015 out of respect to the family. Mr. Oliver, you are one in a million.
He definitely gets visibly angrier and angrier.
* 330 million
really i lost respect after he flat out lied how bail bonds work. the bondsman does not charge a fee of 10% but less than $100 and the 10% of bail you put down is given back regardless of the outcome. I quit watching cause every night its more lies from him. he might as well be on cnn
Yup. As Quark says, "Punishable by a fine means legal for a price".
As long jails are privately owned , changing the laws are close to impossible!!!
Bingo.
No jail is privately owned. They are all the property and responsibility of the municipality they serve. Prisons, that's an entirely different story.
@Feynman Schwinger E_MC2 Maybe I'm wrong, but pretty sure the food contract has nothing to do with jails making money since, get this, jail inmates don't work and therefor make no income for the jail. In fact, everything about them is a municipal expense, so arguing how they are driven by profits is stupid.
capitalism, a love story
what a documentary it is!
Here in Maricopa County,Phoenix, Az,when Sheriff Joe Arpaio was in charge the city was sued for hundreds of millions of dollars for people dying in his jail’s. The sheriffs deputy’s,they run the jails,a majority of them who were involved in the deaths of these inmates got promotions. A lot of these killings were actually caught on video and were used in court even though Arpaio tried to stop the release of these tapes. There were a few murders,because that’s what they were,the inmate in one situation was handcuffed with his hands behind him back was beaten to death as other deputies were cheering on the brutal beating of a mentally challenged young man. Another murder was a inmate handcuffed and sitting in a restraining chair was also beaten to death. Nothing ever happened to any of these deputies besides the worst was they were put on payed leave.
Forget overcoming fear. Make it illegal to lie on political ads and for politicians and officials to lie about data. Make it a misdemeanor with fines and make them pay for ads out of their own funds to apologize for lying to the public. Ideally, all candidate running for office and high level officials should be sworn in to tell the truth or lese face felony perjury charges.
I spent 6 months in jail before I even got a court date and then I finally got a court date only because all my family members were calling the county over and over and over. Here's another stat, trial can take up to 2 years AT LEAST so if you can't afford bail and you're innocent expect to say goodbye to 2 years of your life and have your entire life fall apart. This was in NJ so good on Christie for changing it
It’s crazy how people can lose their empathy for someone when they THINK that person is guilty
And what about those people with preponderance off evidence (caught on video fleeing the scene of an accident, in possession of stolen property, sold drugs to undercover, etc) that are in fact guilty, but not yet convicted?
@Leo K You don't give them bail, obviously. No one is suggesting otherwise. It's silly to even bring up such a fictional scenario.
I would argue we should have empathy for people, EVEN if they are convicted of a crime; they are still people. We don't have to like them or even want them around us, but at the very least we can treat people as actual human beings, regardless of whether they committed a crime or not.
There really needs to be some real consequences to public officials and news media who lie to the public to advance their agenda
Bail doesnt exist in most modern countries anymore... In my country, because people are innocent untill convicted, you are not held in jail pending trial UNLESS:
1: Risk of fleeing the country
2: Imminent risk of committing more crime
3: Deemed absoultely nessecary for the police inventigation
And of course 4, in case of malicious, intentional violent crime.
That story about Kalif is heartbreaking. Clearly bail reform is sorely needed in this country.
What do you mean when you say “bail reform” what specifically are you advocating for?
I‘m not American. But every time John does one of the justice system pieces I‘m feeling uncontrollable rage and disbelief.
I'm an American and every time John does one of these videos, I can't help but ponder how I can get the hell out of here!
I guess there *are* two parties who would suffer if bail reforms went ahead. Bail bond firms & jail owners. Like you said, both are big business -- one is even positively gargantuan -- and it wouldn't surprise me if they either threaten politicians with "less jobs" predictions, downright bribe them, or both. I know I would try if I were in their position.
Political adverts on TV - possibly the biggest problem in the US. Illegal in most of the world, completely unregulated in the US. WTF?
This shit has led to people around me constantly talking about the "Purge Law" in Illinois. It's so fucking annoying and non-stop. Every political ad is that, abortion, or how Chicago is somehow a warzone and the worst place on Earth.
WOW!, I really didn't know that about other parts of the world. Thank you.
And lied without repercussions. Fact checking for nothing.
So glad I found this video! I live in central IL and got one of those mailers and it scared the crap out of me! So happy to have more info and a better understanding!
John Olivers staff (researchers and writers) should work for major news channels. Every topic is well researched and well written and feels like it should be placed into the news cycle rather than a comedy series. These talented people are not wasting their skills for this show as it is making a difference but feels like this information should be on ABC/CBS news or equivalent so it hits more people than youtube views and HBO viewers..
Thank you so much for talking about this with such frankness and factual information. As a public defender, this means so much.
Thank you for all that you do.
I'm sure you spend a lot of workdays with people going through the worst moments of their lives, and thus don't hear this a lot, but your work is the backbone of the judicial system. It's appreciated.
Always surprised that things like this are never attacked from the "incarceration is paid for by taxes" angle. Everyone should want bail reform and jail reform. Put all that money into paying public defenders who actually read their cases before trying them.
Our judicial system is a joke. 4 years ago I was falsely arrested. Had to spend 2 days in jail bc a judge wasn’t available to set my bail. Had to pay $800 for bail to get out. Then pay $3000 for a lawyer to represent me just to have the charges dismissed. To this day. Every time you google my name. I have an arrest photo that shows up on Google for something I didn’t even do. The system is absolutely terrible. That false arrest will follow me for the rest of my live.
My heart burns for you my friend. I may not have been falsely arrested myself, but we fight this battle together. Honestly names and photos shouldn't be able to be released unless an actual conviction is issued...
@In yeah. It is totally ridiculous that names and photos are plastered on the internet for all-time. I legit had someone ask me about it in a job interview bc they googled me. So embarrassing
I was falsely arrested for dui and had to spend a little over twelve hours in jail, pay a $50 bail to get out and miss two days of work for court hearings before all charges were dropped. They were dropped because I don't drink alcohol, I can't drink alcohol for medical reasons. That should have been apparent to the officer after I passed the field sobriety test and then volunteered to take and subsequently passed the breathalyzer test, but he did witness me leaving a bar, a bar I drink water and sing karaoke at, and I have a natural slur in my speech pattern...
Oregon is one of the states that publish mug shots. They recently stopped, or at least some counties, for this very reason.
There was a whole economy setup around taking these mug shots and publishing them in newspaper-esque periodicals which sat next to checkouts at gas stations. That means an innocent person's face would be plastered all over the place in print media for a crime they weren't convicted of.
@Chad Neu in Louisiana, the mug shots are up on the Parishes (county) police website before I was even released. I was told if I paid a lawyer an additional $5000 they could possibly get it removed
John neglected to note that holding someone in jail costs the US taxpayer. If it's necessary, fair enough. If not, it's a complete waste of resources. The US bail system is a shambles.
I’m not gonna lie, I knew those attack ads were bullshit, but I could never put into words why. Thanks for the help, John
thanks for this video exposing the injustice of cash bail in our two tiered legal system-anyone who has worked in the court system even for a short time has encountered at least one tyrannical judge similar to the one in the video,not to mention ones who are more diplomatic in how they express their biases .thanks again.
In Denmark the constitution specifically prohibits keeping someone in jail for any period longer than 24 hours without having a court hearing, because people are actually presumed innocent until proven guilty.
in canada we have a similar law but it’s never respected
If a person in your neighborhood gets arrested for potentially committing a crime and you are _firmly_ against cash bail reform, that means that you are totally fine with letting them out of jail, but only under the strict conditional that they are not poor.
Exactly. Also, nice to see you here.
One point on the guy who plead guilty to a burglary he says he didn't do: if he didn't do it, they didn't find the guy who did, because they convicted him for it. "Tough on crime" often means "stupid on crime" because of the excessive zeal to convict the first person who could plausibly have done it. If that's not the guy, it means you didn't catch the right guy, so not only did you hurt an innocent person, you let a guilty person go free.
Well said! I think about that every time police are caught bending over backwards to frame an innocent person for heinous crimes. How many serial killers and serial sex criminals are walking around free and undetected because shoddy police work has made innocent people pay for their crimes?
@First Name Last Name Makes sense that they want to close the case as fast as possible if they're covering for a buddy who did the crime.
@First Name Last Name Oh we know, just look up how many employees your local police department has.
thank you for this comment
Well said. Thank you
I actually cannot help myself but say thanks to Last Week Tonight for educating me on a subject that somehow had eluded me for so long 😊✌👍
It makes no sense to send people to jail for being accused of a crime when our criminal justice system presumes innocence until proven guilty
It doesn't matter if it's a "short amount of time" or not. Being locked up against your will, especially when you're innocent, is hell no matter what.
As woke as I am I fell for what the media was pushing in under 24 hrs. By the next day of looking into things I realized this is one of the first major steps in prison reform
I live in Northwest Louisiana. The city I’m in has started going to nothing but cash bonds. People can’t even use a bail bondsman because the court is requiring a full amount all cash bond.
It’s horrible and keeping people behind bars even longer. Most can’t afford to pay a cash bond but can go to a bail bondsman. Most can’t afford to pay the entire amount in cash. In fact, they won’t even allow a credit card, including a debit card, to be used. It must be exact amount, they won’t give change, in cash and on top of that cash amount they require additional cash for their processing fee.
Here’s a fun fact I learned while in jail for literally nothing: they can hold you for 72 hours without pressing anything. Except your first day in there don’t count, and neither do weekends. I was arrested on a Wednesday and if I couldn’t make bail, their “72” hour rule would have had me out the following Tuesday despite arresting me Wednesday morning
In a holding cell, at that.
Under what circumstances? My understanding was to hold someone you have to a) arrest them, or b) get two psychiatric consultants to affirm that they are a danger to themselves or others. The psychiatric rule is one people should check the details of in their particular state, but I've known too many people who were held in a police station until the morning because someone thought they sounded depressed. "How did they manage to 2PC you?" I ask, knowing ahead of time they won't know what that is, because if they did, they wouldn't have spent the night handcuffed to a bench.
I'm not arguing with you: my question is not rhetorical.
In North Carolina, I was held in jail from Friday morning to Tuesday then a judge dismissed the charges, which I didn't do.
@Jesse Jordache I have a friend in Wisconsin who was held for almost 5 days under a similar policy. It was on a disorderly conduct with charges dropped
@Jesse Jordache in oregon, or at least multnomah county you can be held with your bail set at $0, meaning you'll be released as soon as possible. but if you're booked on a Friday, the system won't clear you to leave until Monday
it's not technically an indefinite hold, it's just conveniently a system with long, built-in delays, even or especially for innocent people
You guys are doing so much to raise awareness on many topics. Thank you.
Better to let ten guilty men go free than to have one innocent person suffer. - William Blackstone
We need to fund the legal system so these people are not waiting in jail, not just let them out
You know maybe we should have night courts and shit where you can get petty crimes tried right away. Like yeah maybe there's a big waiting room with a guard at the end but you have the ability to take yourself to go pee and get a candy bar and take a call like a human person. Being processed into jail is a trauma of some degree in and of itself, losing your freedom, possibly being stripped naked, quite likely witnessing or experiencing some level of abuse by guards/sheriffs..
Saw Kalief Browder's story on the Netflix documentary "13" a few weeks ago and that shit made me absolutely furious. You bet 100% that the bail was set so high for backpack theft because he was black and the "justice" system is completely disgusting for that.
It isn't even that, often many judges are actually forced to deal with mandatory bail minimums even if the judge doesn't feel the accused is a flight risk. Many states require regardless of the crime a minimum cash bail amount. There was a case where a judge burst into tears after a kid and his parents were unable to post the minimum bail and was killed after only a week in jail awaiting trial! The judge pleaded she never wanted to post a cash bail on him as all he was being charged with was taking less than $20 of merchandise from a convenience store!
He lost his life over $20!
When you said Kalief killed himself the night before, I started crying. Watching the clear pain in his voice and on his face was about to break me. God damn. Poor kiddo deserved so much better. And yeah, at 16, he was a kid.
🤡
There’s a docuseries on Netflix about Kalief that is moving and heart breaking. I instantly began to cry now watching his interview, knowing what happened to him and how much he suffered.
It's one of the most devastating news stories I've ever heard. Just so, so disgusting. "Land of the free" absolutely no it is not, what a lie.
@tpico93 Very much so
Criminals are not released on bail, accussed criminals are. Presumption of innocence either means something or it doesn't.
I think the arguments lose their way when they forget that the Aim of Bail is to ensure the defendant RETURNS for Trial. In a time of GPS and CCTV, among many more options, the use of Money just seems archaic and biased.
Why not just take a hostage as they did in the Middle Ages?!
Many people just plead guilty to misdemeanors because they know they won't be able to afford bail and the punishment is most likely going to be community service (and a lifelong criminal record).
Those are people accused of shoplifting or drug possession who wouldn't be convicted at all if the case went to trial.
This is a huge problem that gets overlooked all the time and it's the correlation between the police and bail bond industry, it was a bail bondsman and he knew every officer in town I don't think that's a coincidence
When I was in jail prior to bail reform, I was next to a guy who had been there for over a year because they kept rescheduling his court date. He didn't have the money to make his $10,000 bail and he claimed he was innocent so he didn't want to take a plea deal. I was lucky enough to have family who were able to pay for me to be released (I then went to court dates every three months for like 18 months before the matter was finally settled), but I later learned his case was dismissed and he was released.... just lost a chunk of his life for no reason and with no compensation. Now, I see these ads all the time that want to bring that system back. It's beyond fucked up.
Reality sucks. And so bail reform is....?
@Dess251
What?
We should get rid of bail. If you are arrested you can not get out of prison until set free by a jury. Guilty until found innocent by a trial of your peers.
@Dess251 good, necessary, uncaring about your "feelings", right, ethical, moral, just, unhypocritical, economical, safe, merited, the norm in other countries... Overall unsucky.
That is heartbreaking. Not to mention, the issues he might have with getting job, home, etc. But moreover, the time lost for something he never did. The system needs to be held accountable.
Honestly American campaign ads are legitimately terrifying. Not because of the things they're fearmongering about, but because of what it means that they're allowed to use such blatantly emotionally manipulative tactics and that it *works*
I had no idea that many people died in jail. It's appalling. Thank you, John, for exploring this issue. It could be me next time.
I had a law suit filed against my local police department and because they didn't think it through (helped me win my case) for the few yrs I was fighting it, I kept getting BS charges by surrounding police departments in my county and two others. Thanks to my great lawyer, none stuck, but the bondsman I used also saw this and always got me out and just said he will, "get his payment when I win". I won and paid him. If we had bail reform then, I would never have to pay for freedom when I was innocent
Trust me the system is very messed up. When I married I chose to keep my maiden name. Several years later my brother found a local girl who ironically not only looked like me but had the same first and middle name spelled the same. Problem was they were into unsavory things I was not and on SEVERAL OCCASIONS had to fight to prove I wasn't her. I'm still fighting over 20 years later over credit issues, fines that pop up etc.
Years ago, 1970's, the policy in Los Angeles County court system was that if you were arrested on a misdemeanor, and if you had not failed to appear in court before, then you were just given a ticket telling you when to appear in court on that charge.
Signing that ticket was your promise to appear on that date.
This was done after you were booked at the Police Department.
The system worked fine, but in Oklahoma, where I live, one still has to post a cash bound.
It never ceases to amaze me that one of the last countries to abolish slavery still think that privatized prisons, and prison labor is somehow not slavery...
America didn't abolish slavery. Slavery is legal for prisoners.
They only partially abolished it. Still allowed as punishment for a crime.
It is slavery, it's legal there. So while your implied cognitive dissonance doesn't exist, it's actually far worse.
Very informative. Great show John. I don't think people should be punished and prevented from earning a living for mistakes they made in the past!
Yeah I've seen in Seattle when people who disagree with cash bail form organizations to bail out people. There have been at least 2 incidents in the last 3 years where the person got bailed out and committed murder shortly after. Cash bail all the way. Let criminals rot.
This is the best show on TV by far, hope it never ends, Mr. John Oliver
The easiest way to show how bail reform doesn't lead to people recommitting crimes is to simply compare the US to countries without cash bail, like the UK (where just 16% of people in prisons are there on pre-trial detention, one of the lowest rates in the world), who have far lower crime rates than the USA
“Civil liberties only apply tangibly to the privileged, and for everyone else, they are entirely theoretical.” Only too true, Mr. Oliver.
this is why we need a revolution!
@John Sparrow by way of ballots. Not bullets
@Secret EyeSpot Yeah, tried that in 2008 and look where "Change You Can Believe In" led us. Electoral politics is no avenue for meaningful, positive change. It's a dumpster fire of broken dreams
The other part of why we need bail reform is the stark differences in what it's like to fight a case "from the street" vs. being in custody.
In my own personal experience, when you're already locked up, it's easy to find yourself in a situation where a plea bargain can become much more attractive than it should be.
Regardless of where you are, it can take months to fight a case in California. It doesn't matter whether or not you are in custody. Our courts are notoriously slow.
As a result, it's fairly common that people who can't bail out of custody will be offered a deal like "...you can be home tonight if you just plead guilty this morning," or you can stay in jail for another month waiting for your next court date.
Frequently, this ends up being a choice between staying in jail, fighting your case for another month or two, losing your job, vehicle, apartment, relationship, etc., BUT being found NOT GUILTY or taking plea bargain, pleading guilty and being on probation (which costs money too), and having a "prior conviction" on your record that typically comes back to haunt you!
The combination of bail and plea bargains has created a teired justice system that is based on your ability to PAY! And if you are an upper middle-class "white boy" like myself, the right "juice lawyer" can buy you out of whole lotta 💩!!
We desperately need bail reform, justice reform, and prison reform IMhumbleO.
Cheers!!💨✌️💚🌲🌏☮️🕊
Bail is pre conviction punishment to torture out a confession.
So much for "innocent until PROVEN guilty" . They'll hold innocent people in jail anyway, and coerce them into confessing to something they didn't do.
One of the most important of John Oliver's episodes, about a viscerally frustrating, incomprehensible, and legally reprehensible aspect of the US Court system.
In just countries you only get send to prison before conviction if you are a flight risk or a known risk/danger to society.
That police commissioner should be releaved of his job.
As somebody living in Germany, I am just baffeled by this System. The thought that I could be accused of a crime and go to jail for three years without any explanation would haunt me every day. What the heck? It is also incredibly expensive to keep somebody that long in jail, so even if you dont care about these people, you're paying to hurt them.
Watch more of this show. American prisoners get put to forced labour and presented a bill for their stay.
In America you're guilty until proven innocent... Just like the internet... I swear America has become a Twitter comment thread
to be fair we have a similar problem in germany. because courts take too long to convict people in u-haft, they are released since you can only be in u-haft for so long (i mean only few exceptions that are really outstanding like beate zschäpe). technically it's right that they shouldn't be in u-haft for that long, but practically we release people that even qualified for u-haft in the first place or in some cases even are convicted but not the final verdict yet. fun times.