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Law & Order: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
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- 게시일 2022. 09. 10.
- John Oliver discusses the wildly popular television franchise, what it’s been teaching us about law enforcement, and some tricks for how to get to sleep in two minutes flat.
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엔터테인먼트
Every time "bad apples" are mentioned, it staggers me how police hypemen forget the rest of that saying. "A few bad apples _spoil the barrel."_ In other words, if you have a bunch of good apples and a couple of bad ones, pretty quickly it turns into _all bad apples._
It's amazing how many people refuse to use the full phrase
People aren’t apples.
If you stand next to an asshole, you become one?
Maybe in your case.
@Mauldoon chances are that you will actually become one if you spend enough time with them.
I was sexually abused up until the age of 4 by my biological father. There are multiple videos of me, a tiny toddler, describing in graphic detail what happened. Therapy at age five, years of symptoms of PTSD, and an official diagnosis of C-PTSD (PTSD caused by repeated trauma), and years of therapy as an adult. Thirteen years later, he still has never been held accountable. The case had to be reopened when I was 17, and while the cps officer I worked with was very kind, she simply couldn't do anything about it. The system is so fundamentally flawed that despite irrefutable evidence, the DA won't even take the case. He's allowed to be with kids, he's married, he lives in the same house he always has with a family that loves him and knows nothing. He worked with kids at a bookstore. I don't want to think about how many others have been hurt since then. Of course he's a monster and he forever will be, but I'm almost more angry at the system that allowed him to get away with it. The bad guy is bad, thats their whole shtick, it's just scary realizing that a lot of the good guys aren't good
I will never and should never forgive him, but that automatic response of "he needs to die" is too good for these people. They can die a martyr, innocent and killed for no reason. They deserve to live in a world that knows what they are, be repulsed and shunned, they deserve to suffer like their victims suffered, death is too kind
It's built by abusers that's why they don't prosecute abusers. I'm sorry for what happened to you.
You are amazing for telling your story even though law enforcement and the judicial system has totally failed you. The system fails regularly but it has also failed in trying to shut you up. Keep talking. There are countless others who will be empowered and inspired by you. PTSD and c-PTSD are the result of soul damage. Your dud is a POS forever. You are a winner 🏆 🥇 forever.
I am very sorry that happened to you. That’s a terrible thing to live through.
Firstly - I am so sorry.
Secondly - your way with words and ability to articulate a horrific and complicated story is just ☆☆☆☆☆
Thirdly- thank you. There's more people out here who understand you.
Thank you for sharing this ..... i don't even have the words.
Hope you are well 🙏
For sure our system is still flawed. Weak laws are not the fault of police it’s the fault of soft on crime political agenda. It needs to change. Your story is horrendous. I’m so sorry. I wish you peace, comfort and security. There is no excuse for such weakness in our judicial system.
I watched so much SVU in high school because I wanted to believe in a world where the rape and sexual abuse my friends were dealing with from predators in and out of school was taken seriously. It was cathartic. And a woman like Det. Benson refusing to apologize for defending victims paired up with a tough guy with a strong sense for women and children was super compelling. It helped that they always treated each other as equals, challenged each other, supported each other, respected boundaries, etc. It even showed all the gross ways victims get screwed out of justice, but in real life it’s even worse. In real life, almost none of my friends got justice, but it felt good to pretend that they would.
As a teen who was being abused by a groomer I also watched this show and daydreamed about justice for me and my friends. We never got it but to its credit, SVU really got me through.
10:37
I like how the main defence for anything cop related is 'one or two bad apples', when the original saying is literally that one bad apple spoils the barrel.
Why is that the saying though can't you just throw away the bad apple? I never got the metaphor.
@Pelcogo The idea is that you SHOULD throw away the bad apple ASAP. If you have a rotten apple in your barrel, the rot spreads to other apples extremely quickly if you ignore it. Throwing away the bad apples in a police context would mean holding cops who abuse their power accountable and not covering it up, and because they haven't done that, that corruption has spread across the police force.
@Schickt mir Karakale I didn't know rot could spread from on thing to another.
@Pelcogo that’s how rot works, my guy
I remember once watching SVU with my very L&O fanatic parents, and saw a case very similar to my own get solved with justice. My parents empathized with the girl and she got closure. The same parents who blamed me for my own case that never got anywhere with reporting.
L&O is fun, but it's a lie.
Uffff, that's rough.
Ain’t that a similar picture. I’m sorry you experienced that too with your folks like I did mine
Your relationship with you parents ain’t good is it?
@Jarod 1999 What do you think, Captain Obvious?
If all the medical shows showed how often insurance is discussed, our health system would change. Thats the power these shows have, which is why they also have an ethical obligation to not white wash reality.
That's another reason I love Scrubs -- there are multiple occasions when they raise this problem, enough for me -- not a US citizen -- to understand the scale of it. When I dug deeper into it I was like "Yep, that's f-ed up"
Honestly the only thing Law and Order taught me is ‘never say anything without a lawyer’
Yep! Cops and true crime shows have taught me that guilty or not ask for a lawyer and dont even say good day to cops.
I agree. Another thing that Law and Order taught me is that the police don't always "get their man."
That's a really great lesson for everyone to learn though. I haven't ever actually watched it myself, but I've learned that and a ton more from all kinds of different fictional and true crime media.
This is the best advice. Don't talk to the police, not even about what you had for breakfast. You never know what their goal is. If you say you had eggs for breakfast but a witness they never told you about said you had pancakes, you are suddenly guilty of lying to the police, and this is a crime, you CAN be arrested and convicted for this alone and go to jail. It does not matter what the truth is, it only matters what you can prove in court and no... society has moved to the guilty until proven innocent standard so a lot of innocent people go to jail.
The same is obvious in My Cousin Vinny where Daniel-san accidentally confessed to a murder
Fun fact: The most medically accurate show on television for years was Scrubs.
"Babys who listened to Jazz are gay"
I've been around Medicine my whole life and that was by far my Favorite show due to it boing more accurate. Unfortunaly every show has only so much time to AIR, so they have to cut a bunch of behind the scenes activity that happens in Hospitals. Not everyone is a Dr or an R.N.
I've heard that before. The reason I was told is because they actually show that multiple people handle different parts of the job, as opposed to something like House where one person is a combo of surgeon, phlebotomist, diagnostician, general practitioner, X-ray technician...
ER too, all the doctors I know couldn't watch Grey's or anything else, but ER and Scrubs? The only two medical shows they would watch.
Well and Emergency! if they were y'know born in the 40s.
@Chris Jones tbf, House was about a team of incredibly talented doctors working on a single patient that no one else could solve. They had to do everything themselves or risk missing on some key info for sherlock to notice.
“The NYPD is famously anti-shooting, unless, they are the ones doing it”
John a f**ken savage for that 😂
I mean, the state *does* have a monopoly on violence..
I laughed way too hard at "letting your wife watch television could give her notions"
Probably notions about heading into the kitchen and making hubby a sammitch.
Me too 😂
"Ladies and gentlemen the story you are about to see is bullshit the names have been changed to protect the LAPD because they helped to save a bunch of money on props"...instant classic
I like how Psych, a comedy crime show specifically shows how comically stupid it can be when police or people hired by police let pride get in the way and cause a ton of problems. Psych also made fun of police consulting on crime shows.
I loved Psych. The protagonists were a couple of goofballs and were not cops.
Another good example IMO are Canadian shows, there's a law against Police being allowed to change scripts up here, meaning that shows up here are far more grittier and far more realistic, everyone is an asshole, and none of them are role models.
19-2 is the Greatest Cop Show ever produced, it will never be topped because it's *real*, everyone is a worse human being by the end of the show, and the show wallows in that respect, it does not try to make the officers "Heroes"
@Morsmordre2.0 Smart goofballs, but goofballs nonetheless
Imagine a surgeon saying "I went to medical school, but most of what I do, I learned from grey's anatomy"
Imagine taking them seriously.
Peter Hine Yeah, that's an important difference. I've had friends who loved medical dramas growing up and then attended med school. ER may have been their favorite show as children, but I would be seriously worried if any of them told me it's how they gained most of their medical knowledge.
But no Cops have said they got their training from SUV,some guy selling his show said it.
Law and Order has never instilled confidence in the justice system for me. If anything it's done the opposite. It's always been been clear that if anything did happen to me I'd have to be extremely lucky to have a Briscoe, Goren, or Benson to get justice for me.
And more power to you. But not everyone does and/or will view the show this way. It won’t make someone who already knows how corrupt and broken the Justice system is to change their mind. But it does reinforce the beliefs of someone who is unabashedly pro-cop. And it sways people who don’t know much either way into some unconscious biases
@The Translator Completely true. In retrospect, my comment sounds pretty rich coming from me, someone who's never been ignored, let down, or victimized by the justice system.
@silverloony1 1 As John himself might say... 'to your very real credit', you being aware of that is a massive step in the right direction. And that's all anyone calling for justice anywhere wants. For those sitting in positions of privilege to realize that position and hopefully use it to spur change for those not so lucky.
If L&O disillusions you to the justice-system, then you definitely don't want to watch YT channels like Audit the Audit, LackLuster, and James Freeman, those are real life. 😕
PSA: Do get a lawyer. Having been to trial, my experience was that the defense attorney is the only sane non-evil person in the room who is not trying to harm you for its own sake. Doesn't matter if the judge is a psycho, at least there's one person in the room who can speak your native language and talk facts and that just feels amazing.
Defense attorneys are kind of the good Samaritans of the law world. Might not always be the case; this is just anecdotal. But yes, lawyer good. VERY good.
I agree with all you wrote. I had a traffic court misdemeanor charge, first time I got in trouble with the law ever in my life, and immediately went to my friends who have ever needed a GOOD attorney, to ask them who to hire. Went with the first one mentioned. The service I got was amazing. I was scared to death what the outcome of my case would be, but he never had a word of bad news for me (as in, always convinced me everthing would be fine). He was an absolute BEAST at every appearance, as soon as a prosecutor spoke on my case, he would immediately fire back, making an argument out of everything he could, total pitbull. My case couldn't have had a better resolution without him. I'm not scared to say I am anti-police in general, I cooperate when I interact with them, but I always view defense attorneys as the real heroes of the law. You get a GOOD attorney, (you know who to ask), most of the time you'll walk away with the best possible outcome for your situation.
The worst situation is when a defense-attorney is forced to defend a client they know is guilty. They don't have have a choice and can't throw the trial; they MUST do their best to get them off and they often can't turn the case down because SOMEBODY has to do it, the system requires it. That's probably why they don't want to know if their client is guilty or not. 🤦
@m We don't really know if you're guilty, exactly. If you outright confess to your lawyer the general guidance for your lawyer is to withdraw from the case and tell "don't do that."
In a more practical sense, though, even if I suspect you did vaguely the thing the prosecution says you did, I definitely don't know if you're guilty of the specific charges because I don't get to decide that. The jury does.
Instead, my job is to make the prosecutor vigorously prove their allegations in a context with lots of scrutiny from a professional person who knows what to look for, investigate the evidence presented for signs of tampering, interrogate opposing witnesses for signs of bias or motive to testify, and, in some cases, guide the defendant in presenting their side of the story (but that's less necessary than the making the prosecution prove it).
And even if you do have a guilty client, it's good for everyone that the evidence and claims are thoroughly checked in every case. Nobody wants prosecutors and police feeling even more emboldened to play fast and loose with the freedom of others, which is what will happen if we don't defend folks who look bad up front.
@Rusty S.TRUE THAT !!!
It’s one of the main reason why I want to be a lawyer, I want to ensure that every person has due process, to make sure that people are innocent until proven otherwise.
You have no idea how long it’s taken me to pull my mother out of the Law & Order fantasy world. I feel like I should be compensated for my labor.
"A**less corpse found at bottomless brunch" is a hugely underrated headline. That's dad pun power to the max! The crowd barely acknowledged it!
It's not even just Law & Order. It makes you wonder the collective effect of all other crime and police shows on TV and how they make people afraid of things that don't happen nearly as often as they think
I think it depends on the genre for the show IMO. More comedy based cop shows like B99 or Psych they show typically besides their core group (who usually are also bad examples of cops even if they're effective) are either incompetent, corrupt, or evil. Where shows like CSI will literally do episodes where cops will straight up just shoot and kill people they think are bad and turns out they arent and then they defend why that's ok or just straight up ignore they profiled and killed a person while painting a fake picture of the superpowers that are the police force.
or the flip side of that, they make people resist any progress toward ACTUAL solutions. Get on any local Nextdoor page around the Floyd days and every single discussion about refocusing public funding from violent policing was met with a resounding chorus of "if we reduce police spending who will stop all the crimes???"
You cop haters would be the first one begging for their help when your home gets invaded.
@SHA I did actually call the cops once when someone came into my office and held it up trying to kidnap his ex. The police wouldn’t do anything until they had 18 cop cars around to storm a now empty building with riot gear, stuck guns in my and coworkers faces, about 10 stood around doing nothing for 2 hours besides “look busy” you know besides constantly go over to the ex gf the shooter was trying to kill/kidnap and repeatedly blame her for it happening/accuse her of working with the shooter. So congrats cop hater here who called the cops and was only shown why cops suck
NYPD SVU did literally NOTHING to help my case in 2019-2020. I was locked in my co-workers room and physically fought him to avoid being raped. He threw me into a TV and kicked me in the ribs about six times. He ripped off my clothes. And the NYPD hauled my ass to the station in front of my students. I gave another statement, about five or so in total. And the buck stopped at the SVU. The detective did jack shit to go after this man, question other teachers and staff, go to the dude's apartment, or anything. He just threw out my case and closed it within days. NYPD sucks! If you are not at least middle class and white, they will not help you, if not hurt you.
+
I’m sad to hear you were treated that way.
I am so sorry you had to go through such trauma. It's especially hard being led down by the people we expect to serve and protect us. I hope you are doing better Courtney. God bless
I’m so sorry. Good for you for fighting back, and good for you for even getting to the police. I was able to fight off my attacker when I was 15, I wasn’t so lucky when I was 20, but I didn’t report either incident. I was too afraid of my story being the same as yours. But hey, at least now I know there’s pride to be found in speaking up.
Hi Courtney,
I am so sorry this happened. I am also a survivor of sexual assault, I reported to the NYPD SVD in 2017, and was treated terribly. I filed a lawsuit against them in 2019. Last year I founded the NYPD Survivor Working Group. We're a group of survivors who were sexually assaulted, reported to the NYPD, were failed horrifically, and experienced institutional betrayal. You're not alone in this and if you'd like to join other survivors and hold the NYPD accountable for the systemic harm they repeatedly cause feel free to reach out. - Alison
As a SA survivor, I can fully attest how cathartic Law & Order SVU has been to watch. To see the fantasy of people like me getting justice from people who genuinely cared. But even as I watched it as a scared 15 year old, I knew it was all a fantasy. That cops and the system of getting said justice is a difficult climb that I'll never get on because I know the odds are against me. As much as I love SVU, I want an Innocence Project type show, where victims, both convicted in jail and silenced to never have a case, can get real justice. And people should know that the police really is against you as an SA survivor.
Funny how they depict cops deeply caring about getting justice, bc basically every experience I've had with them was them trying to figure out how not to make the situation their problem or being threatening.
Literally gotten ignored more than once for reporting a robbery that happened to me that I find out later wasn't even looked at past my initial report. It was basically left in pending status.
I had a fender bender situation and once insisted they took a report so I wouldn't be blamed for the crash and when I called to the precinct for the report I found out the cop pretended to write the report and then tossed it and there was no record except a few scribbled off hand notes.
Or they've just yelled at me for even interacting with them. Once when my dad's apartment was on fire (an accident caused by a lit candle my dad forgot to put out) and he was too far away to get there ATM so as a teenager I had to go see what was happening, and the cops got called to investigate before we knew the cause.
The cop asked who's apartment it was when I got there and I said mine, and then he came back a few minutes later and started yelling at and berating me saying that it was my dad's not mine when he looked it up.
I was a kid, I lived there, I was just answering and in shock from the situation. And then after the cop fucks off and I don't think we ever heard from him again. I was a kid, I was just answering bc I lived there and my dad wasn't home.
Had another situation that a cop tried to trick me into confessing I caused a car crash that I happened to have witnessed (and I was an even younger kid then) and was stupid enough to introduce myself and give a statement bc I still thought cops were the good guys.
I was also a teenager then and the cops were pressuring me into saying things I didn't mean. They just wanted to pin it on someone so they wouldn't have to investigate and do their damn job and I was almost liable for thousands of dollars while in High School.
I have a lot of stories of cops hating doing their job and trying whatever they can to avoid work or do anything noble, and I have a relatively decent experience with them compared to so many.
I have friends who were assaulted and raped and the cops immediately would start trying to blame the victim and antagonize them to "admit" they were making it up so the case would be dropped.
It always makes me roll my eyes in shows when it makes cops look like they care bc I have maybe seen it once in person, and that felt like the outlier (a cop actually helped me find a friend who was trying to commit suicide and I appreciate him doing that).
But I and most people I know have little to no good experience with them (and not when we were doing any crimes but needed them to help with things happening to us).
I’m sorry you had to go through that, hope you called out those cops they need to be fired I hope they do someday.
@Jarod 1999 I didn't because it's scary to do that. Most of these were before the culture as a whole started to acknowledge how awful they are and I didn't want to catch more of their ire than I was just asking them to do their job or be decent human beings.
I’ve never actively belly laughed at this show, but the opening with the banana killed me
"Bananaphylactic shock" is the perfect pinnacle of punnery.
It apparently killed the husband as well.
I'm just really really glad John is still keeping tabs on all of Adam's work, past and present 😂
"There was no probable cause for an arrest."
"You CREATE probable cause!! You push em' around, you provoke em'!"
Holy shit, how did 'Law & Order' get away with not portraying the guy shouting back there to his subordinate such a ridiculously evil pair of sentences as an archvillain? And, regardless of how the show itself frames that dude's role, how the HELL did so many viewers not see anything wrong with that behavior?
Ok, an innocence project version of Law and Order would actually be genius. Imagine bringing back like 20 of the actors for characters who were convicted who have aged because canonically they’ve been in jail for years since their conviction, and then showing that the cops got it wrong in that case. Tell me you wouldn’t watch that.
No. I wouldn't. Besides it's not like there's not enough shows about corrupt cops.
@Deepak Pal There are corrupt cop shows, but how many of them can you think of where those cops aren't the main characters? The Wire would be one of the rare ones. Something like a hypothetic Innocent Project version of L&O wouldn't make the cops the protagonists. You'd see it from the perspective of that group.
Yeah I'd watch it
i kinda like this idea. i wanna see the main series cast confront their mistakes and watch them cope w the guilt they carry. that would actually be pretty interesting
I’d definitely watch it. But that specific show would never be made. They might make one with other cases, but not with cases from Law & Order or any of its spin offs. That show has too much power in Hollywood & they’d push against it.
So...allow me to tell you how I completely destroyed my own enjoyment of Law and Order. What always got me in that series, particularly SVU, was when the detectives, DA, etc. did everything "right" but the obvious bad person got away scot-free. I can't remember how I started finding out about the various protections and rights that people have, especially under investigation for a crime, but I do remember stumbling on that information, as well as context for it. Eventually, I started playing a game while watching episodes. That game was "How many constitutional rights do the main characters violate in trying to arrest and prosecute the bad guy?" I stopped watching it because the "downer" episodes became episodes with actually happier endings because they couldn't railroad over someone's constitutional rights with impunity. It wasn't long after that that I had to stop watching it because, at best, I couldn't take the plot seriously and, at worst, the series was pushing a narrative that just wasn't true and was dangerous to argue for.
I found that the whole system of legal process and policing is a massive balancing act of a conflicting question...How do you take down a wrongdoer as swiftly as possible without infringing legal rights? At best, the whole point of those rights was to keep the gov't from perceiving it's own people as nothing but nails to be hammered. At worst, it lets the wrongdoer off thanks to the insane amount of work it really takes to take them down that no one really wants to do. And somewhere in all of that mess are the law enforcers and legal professionals who just don't care who they railroad, victim or perpetrator.
Brilliant and astute assessment.
@Jennifer HiemstraI,E, Pretty much ALL of them !!!
I remember when I was 15 and had just gone through the most traumatic event of my life that left me in a temporary catatonic state. I was in New Mexico (never been before) in a town, all alone and terrified. The cops there picked me up and took me to their station, and one of them proceeded to verbally abuse me, calling me a bitch and saying "what's wrong with you you crazy bitch, you can't do anything," due to my catatonic state. Then they made me watch Keeping up with the Kardashians in an interrogation room for hours, lmao. Cops, just like humanity in general, are often terrible and abusive and power doesn't usually bring out the kindness in people
And this is why the last season of Brooklyn 99 was so important and powerful. While other seasons had several episodes focused on corruption in the police, their last one had it as the main attraction throughout, and ending on what police reform could potentially do... while showing every challenge to it along the way
Yeah. I always loved that despite being a very silly and funny show B99 hit some pretty hard topics in a meaningful way
You know, the irony of Ice-T, writer of such songs as Cop Killer, No Lives Matter and Black Hoodie, being involved in one of the most well-known copaganda franchises in existence hadn't previously occurred to me.
Whoever the musical director is that made their theme song into a law and order outro, you are a genius and I love it
One of my first jobs in mental health was working in a residential treatment facility for teenagers. Whenever SVU came on, they would all, girls’ and boys’ floors alike, disappear into their rooms to watch it. I asked a more senior staff one day why that was. She said, “Well, think about it. It creates a fantasy for them, in which the cops are the good guys, the victim is always rescued, and the person that was hurting them is brought to justice. Most of these kids never have and never will see that.”
Wow. This comment should be seen. Very eye opening.
😔
That's heartbreaking
It's true
I grew up a victim 9f abuse and was abandoned at the age of 9 when my mom passed and my step-dad dropped me off at a residential facility
From 9 till I was 15 I was in long term residential treatment
I wish I got my justice
I'm 25 now and attending school to work with kids and teens so I can give the help that I didn't have
If I can change just one life then I'm happy
Yeah, a lot of abusers are never held to account because the victim often knows their abuser and fears repercussions from reporting them. I experienced this first hand when I was assaulted. Not only was my claim less likely to be believed it would have put me and my siblings into foster care because my babysitter was taking care of us while my mom was on deployment. so I did like SVU because it gave me a false feeling of comfort but now looking back on it. I really don't like how over the top the show is, those interrogation scenes don't age well.
I served on a jury for a domestic assault case when I was 19, and during the process where the lawyers vet the jury a little bit, one of them asked me if I felt like police shows like Law and Order were realistic. I said no, and he asked me why. I wasn't sure how to respond to that question right away because there's just *so much* that isn't realistic and it would be insane to think that it was. I responded with that things move too quickly, there's procedures for everything, and real life isn't written for TV.
Hearing that guy say that the show was very similar to the real life thing was just baffling to me.
You would legit risk ending your time on this planet if you interrupt my grandma while she is watching Law & Order. She died in 2016 and we still don’t have the balls to go in and disturb her cause the show is still on.
Calling the worst treatment of a suspect in the history of New York "the work of 1-2 bad apples" should tell you everything you need to know about the person.
Honestly this episode was a BIG eye opener and sparked some much needed conversations...
It has! I've already seen multiple people recommend this episode in the comments on tiktoks about cops
It is perfect tv for the aspiring depressive person. Almost all episodes play out so similiarly that it might as well be just a re-run and there is nothing better to nurture your anxiety and growing depression then watching re-runs or a series which consists of almost identical individual episodes.
When my mom saw this, she commented on how we basically expect untrained civilians to be responsible for deescalating encounters with the police instead of expecting our highly-trained, taxpayer-funded police force to be able to deescalate situations.
yeah, it'd be like entering the hospital as a patient and doing/organizing all your own tests and treatments. that's what the 'professionals' are supposed to do.
Then think about how "highly trained" some of m are... no wonder things go wrong.
I believe the problem usually resides in the 'highly trained' part of that sentence.
can someone tell why the US is willing to put up with such poorly trained police officers? can't think of any developed country putting in this little effort, not even close. several years training, standardised exams seems the norm. what is it with the US? still living in the 18th/19th century?
@Embreis I can guess that it has to do with cost. More training and weeding out bad cops will cost more (not that cops are cheap now). The American way is to go cheap and crappy for public services.
Law and Order should not be seen as a representation of how policing is now, but how policing should be. Detectives who doggedly pursue a case to the truth, and prosecutors who only get those who are guilty
Brilliant!!! I am an instructor at a local community college, this is now part of my day 1 welcome to class lecture. Thank you John Oliver!
I’m happy you spread John Oliver vids for others to see
Greendale or City?
When the original LAW & ORDER was brought back - Wolf had also been working on a new L&O called FOR THE DEFENCE, which would have looked at cases from the side of defence attorneys, which I’d love to see done someday.
This is exactly how I've felt about law and order and a lot of other shows that directly influence people in real life.
I remember just trying to watch L&O: SVU but couldn’t get through more than two episodes without feeling ill. After multiple instances of being a victim of harassment or assault I did go to someone with authority, rarely did they ever get the police involved and when they did the police either couldn’t or wouldn’t do anything about it. Especially in the latter case as most police had never covered various emotive responses to trauma and due to that show were under the impression that the only true allegations were the ones that came from a weeping mess and not a functional seeming teenager who had emotionally shut down and was so beyond stressed that she wouldn’t be emotionally vulnerable in a room full of men.
"Law and Order: Oopsie!" would be a great show... covering all the cases where police and the rest of the system ruined people's lives for no good reason.
That needs to be a Green-lit production, Post Haste!
law and disorder
Except it’s not a mistake, sometimes they act this way on purpose.
All my life, my dad has loved Law and Order. When I was beginning to think about college and wanted to go into law, I began watching the show so I would know what things they were doing wrong so I would never ever do them.
I'm a sucker for SVU and Chicago PD. But every time they intimidate some bastard into coming to the station, I always think out loud: you don't have to go! You are not under arrest!
I've watched Law and Order SVU since I was little and as I grew up I appreciated Olivia Benson SO much. What she represented, even if a fantasy, was a bit of light in a very depressive subject. We all want to believe in that SVU department even if in real life, your crime would never be solved
I remember the Law and Order episode inspired by the Exonerated 5. A woman was murdered and the cops first target some boys of color, then veered to someone connected to the woman, before going back to "We were right all along. It was the brown boys."
OMG, John Oliver. I couldn’t love you more. Thanks for what you do for all of us.
Back in 2011 I was raped. Initially I didn't want to press charges, I just wanted to go to the hospital. I was turned away at 2 emergency rooms because they weren't equipped to do a rape kit. Despite me telling them I didn't want one, I just wanted the bleeding to stop. So I eventually felt pressured into calling the cops just to get any support. 2 male officers came in to interview me, mocked me, refused to take evidence, and told me that I wouldn't be able to afford a lawyer because the person who raped me was probably richer than I was. (That's not how that works) I did end up getting a rape kit which has either been tossed or is in the backlog, I don't have it in me to ask. My treatment at the hands of the cops and hospitals was honestly more traumatizing than the assault itself.
how terrible!! It is criminal that they wouldn’t treat you for your injuries. I am so sorry that the police officers just made it worse and didnt seem to know how criminal law works. I am glad you shared your experience. I am hoping that it can add to the collective voice that we need to change things.
Fucking doubt
Humans truly excel at harming one another. That's pretty much the limit of their abilities if you consider an "eagle's eye" perspective.
Sure, entertainment and news often prefer to portray the "good" sides of human interaction, but that's just the fringe. 90% is geared toward abuse, trolling, lack of empathy, an absence of ethics, and the complete abandonment of justice.
Simply consider Chump '45 and his past 30+ years of activities, and it will tell you everything you need to know. 🙄 Ultimately, the only "justice" is KILLING KILLERS. Or dismembering r@p1$t$. And decapitating those who commit grand larceny.
That’s really sad, I’m so sorry!
I'm so sorry this was your experience. I can't imagine a worse time in life for anyone. Just know that this terrible trauma has not defeated you because you did seek help and you are able to talk about it even in forums like this. Many are unable to discuss their assaults or any subsequent mistreatment because of their shame or fear of rebuttal etc... You are among the strongest of us Morgana Harp. Never let these demons win. Keep telling your story so that others might feel strong enough to tell theirs. Dont be afraid to acknowledge the damage caused by this. Seek help if you feel your grasp on life slipping. Please seek wellness and strength. Cheers! 💗💕💗
I binged all of SVU until current (at the time) while I was working in a print shop in college. I’d caught scattered episodes before but it was the first time I put it in order then and saw the full arcs play out.
It was astounding to me that Stabler was the poster boy for getting away with police brutality for years and years, but then the second he’s gone and they bring in the character meant to fill his slot, Amaro, gets a whole ass having a problem with brutality storyline. Perhaps it’s notable that while Stabler was the whitest of white, Amaro was half Cuban.
What a great episode. What an age I was born into that my elders and my younger's need to be told that television is not reality. I swear in the 80s people were telling everybody the TV would rot your brain. Great show great episode keep them coming
Finally 😁
Imagine how hard it was for Mariska Hargitay to say that line without laughing.
I like how the one guy says "they don't have time or money for training", but they apparently have money to buy armored vehicles and brand new Ford and Dodge cars every year which cost 100k a piece... I don't think that money is the issue, it's how it's being used.
Ah!!!!, John! It's been 8 years, but your segments do not get old. What a pleasure to have you for 30 minutes in my life once a week
If I had a dollar for every time the phrase, "a few bad apples" was applied to police brutality and corruption I could pay my medical bills and trauma therapy for the rest of my years.
Or 50¢ for every bad cop.
Problem with that bad apple thing is its only half the quote
You'd probably have money left over to pay the medical bills of everyone you know too.
@Llynnyia If you interpret "one bad apple spoils the barrel" to mean that apple farmers will throw out an entire barrel if they find one bad apple in it, then it makes sense. But what that saying really means is that any bad apples need to be removed ASAP, or else their rot will spread, thus making the rest of the apples in that barrel bad.
@spongeintheshoe Well, the fact that the system seems to be pretty bent on protecting the bad apples from being removed suggests that the rot has already done a lott of spreading...
I watch law and order every week and I never saw cops in a decent light. The show actually made me fear the police even more.
Imagine if they made an episode of _Law & Order_ where it was revealed that the vast majority of people they put away were actually completely innocent.
I grew up on Law & Order, especially SVU. This was back in the early 2000's, so I often watched with my mom, and it often started conversations that were important to have. Sometimes after episodes, my mom would turn to me and say something like "you know if [event from episode] ever happens to you, you should [appropriate response to the event], right?" Or she would check in and make sure I understood what a character did was the wrong thing to do. You know, we'd talk about what to do if assaulted or if a stranger wants to meet you in a secluded place or a guy is abusive. Important things that young girls need to know.
I can't even fathom thinking I should learn my profession from a tv show, though. Idk.. I was taught young that a tv show is not reality. The characters are made up for the purpose of telling a story that communicates a particular message or feeling. It's to entertain, not necessarily to portray the real world. And that's what I loved about them. Anything could happen. Giant man-eating snakes, zombies, rich white people going to jail when they commit a crime... I knew what happened on the show wasn't representative of reality. Hec, the trial procedures were complete fiction! But after spending all day in the real world, it was nice to watch a universe where there was some justice in the justice system, where the bad guys don't always go free, where someone in the legal system genuinely fought and cared for the victims, where woman got justice against abusers and r*p***. It's a nice fantasy world to escape to when reality is overwhelming, and that's all it should be. People shouldn't be learning to do their jobs from fiction. Fiction is great for aiding the teacher, but it shouldn't BE the teacher.
He’s also EP of the Chicago side of the Dick Wolf Extended Universe, which had a corrupt cop harass a firefighter in one show to the point where he was arrested and jailed, only to have that same cop released, promoted and become the protagonist of his own show where he was shown to be “not that bad cause he cares about justice for victims”
Chicago PD is wild 😮
I guess ironically it's very realistic for a cop to not only suffer no consequences but actually get promoted.
As a adult, I am now aware that all times stabler threatened or full on assaulted a suspect would probably immediately ruin the case
The part where cops are watching L&O to get a rudimentary clue what to do in certain situations perfectly demonstrates that 21 weeks of training just does not cut it in a modern society.
At least they are trying.
@xhagast that’s not enough
100% Agreed you should need a degree to be a cop. You need one to be a lawyer, or a doctor, why the f*ck not to be a gun weilding enforcer faced countless difficult and life threatening scenarios. In other countries, you go to college, and learn a fair amount about the actual laws, and human psychology, which is common sense
I used to watch SVU religiously.... until my special needs little girl was raped repeatedly by a pedophile who turned out to be the boyfriend of my best friend...I thought of the two of them like my brother and sister.
The state of Vt and NY declined to prosecute the evil monster, even after seeing the medical proof that my child had been violated...and he flunked 2 ..not 1...but 2 polygraph tests... with:"flying colors " according to the Vt detective.
They told me they would get him the next time.
Basically telling me that my child didn't matter... why? because she was an autistic young girl and we all know that this society really doesn't give a damn about the special needs community.
I can also tell you that the cops, detectives and D.A. AMD Assistant DA sure the hell don't leave parties on the weekend to answer your phone call.. like Olivia Benson and Elliot Stabler do.
In real life... victims don't matter...and that's why I stopped watching SVU...in fact the show makes me physically ill.
Dick Wolf should absolutely be ashamed of himself for continuing to put that hogwash out there so people who have never been touched by a sex crime think that the majority of Law Enforcement and the Judicial System give a crap ... they don't.
Thank You So Much John Oliver for calling this franchise and it's creator out for their hypocrisy.
Signed a real victim's mommy who never saw justice.
That's horrific. My heart goes out to you and your daughter. Disabled and neurodivergent people experience sexual abuse at atrociously high rates, and nobody seems to care - especially not law enforcement. Cops are much more likely to beat up, falsely imprison or murder an innocent autistic person than help them, and no one (outside of really far left spaces) seems to talk about it.
Hi, a lot of us(being people affected by sexual assault) watch SVU as a form of escapism. Like we aren’t dumb, but it’s nice to imagine a reality where there are people who care.
My friend and I have both been sexually abused and assaulted, we both have strong anti-cop political views, that being said we spend hours watching SVU together because it feels good to fantasize and want to be the change.
@Inda Co I also have a pretty negative view of cops these days, unfortunately.
I just want you to know that I truly do appreciate your kind response. Thank you so much.
@Angel Kingsley I absolutely understand why you and your friend watch the show.
I truly appreciate your response and I want you to know that I am so so sorry for the pain that you and your friend have had to live through.
My heart hurts for both of you.
Please take good care of yourselves.
@christineh2843 I hope you never give up and continue to seek Justice e go to the news call out that monster and so called friend let the world know their faces & names. ❤
There needs to a spin off Law and Order: For the Defense, which centers around Defense Lawyers and PIs hired to prove their innocence
There was one scheduled with exactly that title a few years ago, but it got pulled and we were given Law and Order: Organized Crime instead
The biggest coincidence just happened I was watching this clip from the show, got up to use the restroom, and walked by the living room where my mother was watching the Adam Driver episode.
If you're afraid to be held accountable for your actions then I want you to be held accountable
or.... your mom just watches the Adam Driver episode over and over. I'm sure that's a thing out there.
Defense attorneys are the most important part of the justice system. They aren't there trying to help murderers get away with it, they are there to make the prosecution do their job well.
Without defense attorneys, millions of innocent people are suddenly imprisoned.
Demonizing defense attorneys is like demonizing the reviewers in the peer review process.
One of the amazing things about law & order is that sometimes the DA doesn't win and they lose a case which really does happen in real life that a bad guy goes free. but has it cultivated multiple generations? the answer is an unabashed YES!!! I've never gotten anything other than an occasional speeding ticket. but what I do know is don't say s*** without a lawyer. Don't let the cops get you to talkin.
Imagine saying: "I'm a lifeguard. I've learned most of what I know watching Baywatch."
Or "I'm a surgeon. I was trained by watching Grey's anatomy and the Good doctor on netflix." Hard pass, right?
Somehow that's OK for law enforcement? How?🤨
I don't think any of the people who said that in that montage were law enforcers.
@Audrey Muzingo Well according to one of the former show runner for SVU, it's the case. Here's the ref: 3:16. 🤷🏾♂
Or imagine learning how to survive when you're naked and afraid because you watched naked and afraid. You're real concern should be why you're naked in the first place
The original Law & Order, despite what the clip of dick wolf says, was way more grounded and realistic than SVU and it's not even close. Mentions police and judicial corruption often and examines the relationship those entities have with Black people. "Ben Stone once said I'd have to decide if I was a lawyer who was black or a black man who was a lawyer. All those years I thought I was the former. All those years I was wrong." One of the heaviest lines in the series
It's Soooo cool seeing my man DOB's name first under senior writers! You go Dan!
I watched Law and Order for years and never once thought it applied to reality. I actually had to keep telling family that SVU does not equal real life 😪😪
I'm a life-long reader of mystery fiction and watcher of detective, mystery, and cozy mystery TV shows. I pretty much learned to read from reading Nancy Drew books. I still love reading cozy mysteries. And I love shows like Death in Paradise, Queens of Mystery, and Ms. Fisher's Murder Mysteries - to name a few.
But are any of these realistic? Uh no. Death in Paradise usually ends with the DI du Jour gathering the suspects, explaining what happened, then having one of the St. Marie police officers arrest the murderer. WHY would a murderer stick around for all that?
But it's all fantasy. There's something incredibly comforting about slipping into a historical space or exotic world where the murders are never too gory and the detective always solves the crime.
As to Law & Order, Can it be too much "ripped from the headlines" - yeah. Would we like to see the cops go after a dirty cop occasionally- yeah, that too. Could it be even more realistic? Maybe. Would that work? Pretty much not. Genre fiction has certain requirements- the detective always gets his or her man so to speak. The woman in a romance novel always gets her happy ending. It's not wrong to want that. Especially if you know it's not real.
I must admit though, I'd love to see The Innocence Project as a TV show.
And does anyone really think Angela Lansbury solved all those murders in Cabot Cove Maine - murder capital of America?
as a defense lawyer, a realistic show about what we do would be even more dull because most of it happens over email. lol
I feel like the phrase "dying of bananaphylactic shock" was very under appreciated for how brilliant it was.
Sometimes I wish I was in the audience and could give the joke the proper laughs myself
Yeah he pretty much hit on the exact reason I like svu so much. I didn't even call the cops when I was assaulted bc I knew it would go nowhere. It's a fantasy of what actual justice might be like in an entertaining package. But if you're going to watch it, you have to be aware that it's not reality.
This whole (very well done) segment reminds me of a discussion I've had around the series 'Broadchurch'. Which is an excellent series, with nuanced and well-written characters - but I realised recently it contributed to making me feel that maybe, in the UK, the police was more respectful and kinder to victims or something... I guess I just wanted to believe that there was a place where things worked better?
Except... I was in a discussion about a case of police brutality there, recently, and I said something like, 'really, in the UK?' and my friends were like, 'of course in the UK, there's a whole history with racism in the police institutions, why would you think otherwise?' and I was pretty unsettled to realise that the answer was... because I watched a TV show and didn't think any further.
God damn Broadchurch was slow going.Come back in a year and maybe they solve the case.If there's anyone left on the series who hasn't had a breakdown by then.
I'm an autistic, disabled, trans guy who was playing a phone game in public park during covid and off duty NPYD beat my face in and broke my nose. Responding NCPD kept threatening me at the scene if I arrested him they'd arrest me too. Kept victim blaming. Kept making me try to prove why I was in a public park on a sunny summer day. Heard him say he would do it again and did nothing about it. I've filed complaints with IAB, CCRB, NCPD, NYS AG, two senators, NC DA, and more - all complaints magically go unanswered or disappear in an effort for them to cover up this attack. I'm still trying to get someone to listen.
I once read a post on tumblr where someone called Law and Order the American equivalent of a BBC period drama. It's in the past and reflects an idealized version of America where the government works.
I think the thing that gets me the most is that many people CHOOSE to believe the lies. I grew up on Law and Order, even as a kid I knew it was fiction and made to be entertainment not educational. As a kindergartener, I was once late to school because I HAD to see the ending of an episode of Perry Mason (yes, I know, I am a freak), but I knew that things didn't tie up so tidily IRL. I don't know how so many people, ADULTS, can blindly choose to believe that these scripted TV shows are reality
Bananaphylactic shock. Someone give that writer a raise.
You KNOW that one had been brewing in the back of the writer's mind for years, waiting and praying for a highly improbable situation where its magnificence could be unleashed upon the world in all its puntastic glory.
Bananalphylatic...
I love it 😂😂
A top tier pun 👏
On my next Dr visit I'm going to steal that joke. It's hard to find medical humor that's funny.. ;)
John Oliver one of your best shows and issues that cannot be discussed enough.
I've never seen Law and Order. Thanks to Oliver & Team, I don't feel like I'm missing out on it.
I thought I was the only one who hasn't seen it. I agree with you, no regrets!
One here too
You really aren't. I caught a couple episodes of SVU at my in-laws place and was pretty disgusted by how they painted violently abusive cops as somehow heroic. In one they had a guy in custody, get told that none of the evidence they thought they had was actually relevant (ie it actually exonerated him because it proved he wasn't at the scene) and then they go in and beat him up anyway, barely asking a single question to someone who probably up until this point wanted to help them. Later they are for some reason shocked to learn that he wasn't the perp, despite literally having no physical evidence or even any witness testimony.
You're not. I like crime stories, but couldn't watch this one. And I feel that a cop beating suspects to submission would make me feel good as victim. Also imagined being thier suspect... Horrible.
One story I heard is when a group of Russian law students came to USA to learn about American justice system, they were given Law and Order to watch
Which is funny, considering there are like 6 Russian versions of it lmao
It's really really weird to me that police departments are so astonishingly expensive, and furthermore get an insane amount of money by essentially stealing from suspects, and yet meanwhile go out of their way to employ incredibly average dudes of low to middling intelligence who are provided with very little training. So where exactly does all the money go?
Salaries.
Ice cream-making machines, I suspect. "To Protect and Soft-Serve."
I loved the original shoe, I love SVU and I also loved the British version. I have never watched it while thinking it was a true reflection of real "law and order" and if some do, I wouldn't blame a TV program. For me it's simply just entertainment and nothing else. That being said, I totally understand what John is getting at and pretty much agree with his observations.
Whoever wrote "bananaphylactic shock" has just hit their comedic peak.
I'm sorry, in a career defined by comedic reporting of the news, you're not gonna get a better off-the-wall pun in without it feeling completely forced.
It could feasibly have been "bananaLphaylactic shock" which would also be fitting and excellent
That truly is excellent word play
Of course it's "Forced", I imagine that just the fact it was a banana makes that assumption obvious!
Cheers!
I’m gonna go ahead a guess it was Dan formerly of Cracked. He wrote a bunch of the After Hours sketches and it seems on brand for him
they could totally have a sort of series that's more like a serial miniseries, self contained seasons dealing with more problematic and longer cases, dealing with bad cops and persecuting them. Star Trek did it, they were a very episodic series and then they developed others where there was an overarching storyline.
The reality of what he is talking about is truly terrifying for those of us that live and deal with it on a day to day basis.
I watched SVU as a young teen and went on to volunteer & intern with a domestic violence & sexual assault crisis center and it was eye opening. I knew before interning from college the show wasn't accurate but it's another story when you work with the victims.
In Seattle there were some top tier criminal defense atty’s who did a public access tv show trying to show the other side.
It was short lived and considering how the L&O franchise has exploded, is still needed.
I watched SVU mainly just because it’s entertaining to me and I loved Olivia Benson. But recently back in June I was raped, and now I watch it to find comfort from Mariska Hargitay because her character makes me feel better. I know the systems messed up but it’s nice to believe that there’s someone looking out for us even if she’s fictional
"The NYPD is famously anti-shooting, unless they are the ones doing it..." Had to be one of the top 10 savage lines of this series.
Considering they also enforce the stupid pistol magazine restrictions among other absurd requirements, yeah
They also have their standard issue pistols having weird standards too, but hey, sucks to suck
Save for Columbo. The only guy from the NYPD that never needed a gun 😂
@Brandon Ayong He was LAPD
@Peter Byrne Oh you're right. Well I stand corrected
Notice the pro-police brutality audience seemed in shock.
“I’m not the one who stabbed the captain with a pickle!“ is one of the other most legendary lines from SVU
because canonically they’ve been in jail for years since their conviction, and then showing that the cops got it wrong in that case. Tell me you wouldn’t watch that.
@slida emif your comment has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said
I think they mistaken L&O with Blue Bloods. IN L&O many cases end up were the criminal wins or the ending isn't happy. In the other. They solve every case each episode and always with a happy ending. Don't get me wrong I love both shows.
This is one of my moms go to shows when she's working from home and off work for the day.
When i was hired as a parole/probation agent for the state of Michigan, the training required us to watch Law and Order to hone our interview skills. 🙄
I feel like Castle is sort of an answer to this. They don't always get the right suspect and they tell you about it. Dirty cops exist in that world. The main characters in Castle are people who try their best to make a difference. If someone breaks policies to try to have a happy go lucking ending the policy breaker has consequences.
Another problem with L&O is that the bad guys are just that - bad guys. They aren't "people" who are considered innocent until proven guilty. They're bad guys who need to be stopped at all costs. This is how police see suspects when they learn their tactics from this show. Also why so many cops immediately become hostile when you know your rights. They think you must know a lot about your rights BECAUSE you expected an encounter with the police, and thus they believe you've obviously committed a crime.
That’s what makes SVU so reasonable for its audience. Even in prison, if your rap sheet includes sex crimes or crimes against children, you’re in a world of hurt. Amongst the prison population, everything can be justified except for rape. No one, unequivocally no one, cares about the person behind the charges in SVU and that’s we’ve all collectively agreed on that regardless of the merit.
Remember the series mostly dealt with murders, rape, and now organized crime. All field where the suspect is believed to have done some heinous crimes. Probably be a different show if they dealt with shoplifters. The original L&O run at least had the occasional defendant with an understandable axe to grind.
@SEAZNDragon SVU has also done several episodes about falsely accused and occasionally falsely convicted. Not to mention the ones about misconduct and brutality.
So John is mad that L&O is better then real life seems he's mad the wrong thing this is the biggest eye roll facepalm that a talking head has ever given and it's hilarious
@shane daley you've kind of missed the point, champ
Hilariously, I did watch John Oliver to get better at public speaking and conveying difficult topics with enough humor not to offput my audience. Not technically for a job, but as a skill for jobs and school
John and Bill are the only reason I keep HBO. Love them both, they tell the truth.🌷❤️
A fact that is wildly unappreciated is that so many people base their morals and values on fictional things they see on TV or the internet.